Wouldn't it be much more civilised if people did not need walls to be built around them in order to live? and they could simply accept each other for who they are? Mintee, maybe I was not clear enough. Dont run into conclusions about me missing the point! I meant compounds for Westeners and other nationals. I do not think that such compounds should exist at all. I believe that all foreigners that live in Saudi Arabia, should be able to exercise their lifestyle freely, in the same way that locals exercise theirs. That is called multiculturalism.
In a modern society, people should respect each and be repected, whether as visitors or hosts.
That would also help the two to mingle more, in order to reduce prejudice on bothe sides.
I do also believe from the religious point of view, that this should be compulsory as Islam respects Christians and Jews to the extend that they are allowed to marry..
Most of the people living in compounds are Christians? That is a bit of a contradiction??? No?
In the ancient times when Prophet Mohamed was in Medina, all religious groups lived together and mingled freely.
Why now, at least 1000 years after, all that is gone?:((( you completely missed the point..
the walls is a sort of covering.. like the women wearing an abaya... Since men and women dont mix socially. The walls around living quarters. houses, apartments, compounds etc is part of this issue.. The women want to be able to move about freely without outsiders staring at them. Its part of Islam..... We live by Islam here in SaudiArabia, therefore its a ruling by God, not social prejudice issue...
edit:.. YOU TELL EM "H"! YOU GO GIRL!!!!
anyways.. why is everyone so worried about us Saudi's? We love the way we live.. and why does the west seem to feel we wont be happy until we live like they do? Well frankly by seeing all the unwed pregnant teens, aids, adultery, 60% divorce rate.. half of all husbands (and wives too) with xtra marital affairs (while they complain about our 4wife feature), half the kids in the household dont know who their fathers are, drugs, rapes, crime skyrocketing.. same sex marriages, abortion off the roof in numbers... I personally love my life here in Saudi!.... I have to say this and to Mintee, that this is not Gods rules, the Saudi's live in a suffocating environment and their way of living is to have its citizens worry about stupid things like this one, I have seen Saudis acting like animals around women in different countries. So yes you are right this degrading to Saudi men and women to say this gods rules.
What is going on in Saudi Arabia is shifting attention from the major issues to minor ones, I renounce that nationality assuming the 21st century, wake up Saudis it is time for you to rebel and change, stop the salary that you have and take care of your children education, bring up your children to have a normal life. because they need a new generation to have this change to take place, I hope that one of these days; not in life time that there will be an alternative to oil, and then the Saudis can drink it all. Gigi,
Mintee gave you the right and exact answer regarding the walls around the houses. Even in the UAE, where I am from, which is very westernized, all villas have high walls around the house for the purpose stated by Mintee.
It got nothing to do with Religion. It's just privacy and to make women feel free on their own property. And that is not uncivilized at all.
I was in Europe this year and by walking around in a residencial area I was wondering how people could feel comfortable in their backyards. Sometimes you even could see what was laying on their plate or people sunbathing. If this is normal for the West, well walls around villas is normal in Saudi and other Islamic countries.
Why are compounds for Westerners not build different? Why should they. Would a house in the US have a wall around if a Saudi comes to the US to work?
KSA is a very strict Islamic country and many things are handled different than in other countries. That of course does not mean that Saudis are more religious than other people.
It's your host country right now and I am quiet sure you are accepted for what you are. With or without a wall around the compounds:))
Take care.
Gigi, I have difficulties to understand your problem. Why can you not sit with friends on your terrasse even it there is a wall around?
Why should Arabs change their architecture for any foreigners? If you would visit family (Saudi family?) you even would not ask and be bothered by any walls and you would not live in a compound either.
Please do not get me wrong, I do not want to be rude or offend you, but when the Arabic architecture is bothering so much, why do you not enjoy an American or European backyard? You are talking about to take you for what you are. Please practice what you preach.
Of course you can see almost everything on TV. Well, I like to watch crimes movies. Does that mean I have to becom a criminal now? Hope not.
Whenever anything bothers you, just think about the taxfree salary you/your husband/father brings home. Maybe that helps:))
Salam
edit reggie: you can not compare lifestyle in Scotland with lifestyle in KSA. But that is exactly what I meant. You got Laws regarding the height of fences, walls etc and this would not be changed for a Muslim family either.
Btw: Muslims are helping out each other, too. Every wall has a door you can go through:)).
Dear Gigi,
I do not know why Saudis are not allowed in compounds for Westerners. As you can see and as I stated I am from Abu Dhabi and I only can guess to keep Saudis away from western influence (a guess). Maybe Mintee, who lives in Saudi can answer this question better, or willie who has been there.
I do not have to know why you are in Saudi, but I do know that you are not in Saudi only because you love the KSA. You either have to married to a Saudi or be sponserd by a company, husband or father. Or just are just visiting family members who have a valid Saudi residence visa. I am just assuming that you are not visiting a Saudi family, because then you would not have to ask this kind of question. You could discuss this issue with Saudis having a coffee.
I do not where you are from, but I know that you are not a Saudi citizen and I (again) just assume that you are a Westerner. Like I said before I am far away from being rude or offending you but do you know how frustrating it is, when people coming here for just a certain time and start critiziging things? No matter if for the bad or good. Just in general. Expats coming to the Middle East mostly to make more (taxfree) money than in their home country. Not to late after they arrive, many of the expats are missing their old lifestyle and start questioning the lifestyle of their host country.
The only thing I try to say is: if a foreigner is coming to your country (no matter for what) I am quiet sure you expect this person to adopt and put up with the lifestyle in you home country. Now just go the opposite and we will agree on each others opinions. Like: when you in Rome, do like the Romains do.
Btw: I do not think that this here is the right place to have any discussions. If you want you can email me any time!
Salam I always feel people who build high walls ,fences,and hedges around there houses have something to hide?and this would make me very claustrophobic and its nice to say hello to your neighbour and help if needed ,we are in the year 2008 and we should be living in open spaces that we can breathe here in Scotland there are laws that you must keep your walls to a certain height and what ever you choose to build I suppose I am lucky as myself and my neighbours have open space and we know who is about and who is coming and going and we help one another in our gardens if needed and we respect each others privacy. It is my belief and till today - I still believe that compound in Saudi Arabia forms one of the biggest manifestation of social segregations in Saudi Arabia just short of being classified as a form of racial descrimination.
Arabian Homes, Lucent Compound, Sharbatly Compound, etc in Jeddah, Riyadh, Dammam, Dahran, etc. are some of the clear examples.
Walled compounds with strict security and patrol is very visible. WHY ? Because of possible terrorist attack?
Back in the early 90's where Al Qaeda is never heard of inside Saudi Arabia - those compounds are already there and the security and walls were also there (secuirty is increased nowadays due to terrorism)
But what is really going on inside the compound? The compounds housed mostly western people (americans, europeans, koreans, japanese, etc) who are being employed by big multinationals and government contractors who - the Saudis CANNOT imposed totally the rule and law of the land for these individuals. Mutawwas and Police CANNOT just come and be inside the compound - because they are told not to do so.
So what is really going on inside the compound? Simple - it's just like another world inside the compound. The moment you inter the compound and set your foot inside is just like leaving your Saudi lifestyle in the guardhouse and just be amazed how much normal it is by just being inside the compound. Simply a normal world within a place that seems to be really unimaginably backward and illogical. You have restaurants, mini stores, club house, roads, etc - where everybody can just mingle with each other. Party here - BBQ there, socializing with friends - simply pretty normal. Drive, bike, wear your casual and most normal wares, etc...
And outside the compound? - This is the place where you have to realize that you are inside Saudi Arabia where you feel that the rules and laws are seems to be the ones who will harm you rather than protect you. Outside the compounds is just like a feeling you have to obey first before you complain.
And who are the people who are outside? Of course those Asian workers (mostly south indians, pakistanis, philippines, other arabs) who cant afford to "buy" a normal social life.
Social injustice that can be purchased?
The question is not whether it is more civilized to have those walls erected or not - in the first place, it is a necessity (by the government and other multinationals) rather than a question of morality or equality. Otherwise, who westerners who would like to live in Saudi Arabia and be deprived of their own social rights?
I think most western people would like to have and keep their rights rather than selling it for higher salaries in Saudi Arabia. And to overcome this?
Erect those walls and be a cover for the social inequality you have just asked. I don't like how non-muslims cant visit Mecca either.... that's abit prejudiced. That is an excellent question!!! I was wondering about this too.
I am from Iran but have lived most of my life in the west. I was not familiar with the concept of a "compound" before actually reading some of the answers here on Y/A & watching the movie "The Kingdom." (but I am young so maybe that is why)
Anyway, I find the concept of a compound highly amusing. In Iran compounds do not exist. Foreigners (Westerners included) who work & live in Iran do not live in compounds. It may sound funny but Iran is actually one of the safest countries for foreigners to actually live & work. Contrary to what the Western media & politicains so eagerly want to portray.
Peace&Love I think that ex pats are the ones who like living in compounds. They isolate themselves from the country, communuty, and culture they live in simple because they don't want to accept it, live it, live around it, or with it. Foreigners used to live a lot more outside of compounds in Saudi Arabia in 1970's, 1980's, and at the beginning of 1990's. But due to security concerns for foreigners, all this changed after the Khobar bombings and other attacks against foreigners there.
Now, many of those compounds for foreigners have high walls, barbed wire, concrete fortifications against car suicide bombers, and soldiers with machine guns guarding the walls and the enterances. |
